Seems you might want easier kills rather than good fights.

Cloaked ship has the intel. From that they can plan and launch an attack at their leisure; that wipes out the defenders or move on to a softer target.

Entertaining you is worse because you are argumentative with everyone on the forums.

However, I am going to assume that you have never been in a worm hole and never lived in null to spell it all out.

In a worm hole, when you notice a cloaky ship you hopefully pick them up on D-scan to know what they are. You will also probably see a worm hole entrance that has appeared because you haven't existed your statics.

Small corp / alliance 10-30 people.

See probes - get safe.
Asks corp and alliance if they are scanning.
Know there is a hostile there.
Send out a scanner ship
Find the new entrance.
Sit on the entrance until they leave (decloak when they exit)
De-stabilise the worm hole.
Spend six hours figuring out if any other ships are in there while remaining cloaked and hidden.

You do not go out, you do not engage because you don't know what you are fighting.
You do not want to get trapped outside the worm hole, you do not want to waste valuable ships, pilots or pods.

Null Sec if cloaked ships disappear from local

Every time they hit a gate they pop up in local when they de-cloak
Cloak ship comes in - get safe.
Wait for them to leave.
Keep waiting for them to leave.
They logged off? Probably a trap. Keep waiting for them to leave.
When they hit gates and pop up in different systems then you might come out.
Spend six hours figuring out if they have covert cyno'ed people into the system.
Probably leave the system or log off and play another game for a few days.

Last things consider doing:
Engage them.
Go ratting
Go mining
Try bait them out.

They probably know what you have, they probably have more and if you feed them kills they keep coming back or they stay there day in and day out.

So, the only tactics that work for worm hole and null defense is overwhelming force or kill denial.

My favorite idea for fixing the threat of AFK-cloaking is setting limits on how many ships can come through a single cyno and/or time delays on ships coming through or lighting another cyno, to make hotdrops smaller and/or slower. Still a threat but less of a OMG ITS OMEGAFLEET THEY INSTABLAPPED MY TANKED CARRIER!!!

Actually, smaller/slower hotdrops will lead to more ratting carriers which will lead to more (in total) hotdrops.

I am in null.
When I see reds coming on intel channels - know what I do?
I dock up!
Yup, I dock right up.
Then I undock in a covert ship. Why? Being in a covert cloak ship is better than being in a station.

Everyone knows it is over powered. It needs to change.

Again. A quick reply with very little thinking and only one benefit or use mentioned.

It is too logically evident to me to believe it needs that effort. So, counter argument. Disprove it.
Give me stats on how many hours miners and ratters don't stay docked up, move to another system or are playing another game when there is an AFK cloaker in their home system.

Easy solution: delay before you can light a cyno after jumping to one.

Before you say something can't work, stop and ask yourself if you have closed off all of the possibilities. If you don't have special training in this field of mental brainstorming work, you're probably better off with the simple mantra: never say it's impossible.

Perhaps not everyone, per se, but I'd figure a large percentage of the PVPers I know who have flown a covert ship would agree to this.

"The wheel is round!"
"No! No! No! I demand you waste your time to do a three year investigation with proof of it rolling down different hills, that you find a new way to calculate Pi and then prove to me how round it is compared to a square!"

That is how absurd this seems to me.

I only want a pilot jump limit and re-cyno delay on covert cynos, but that's beside the point. I was pointing out that you were being to quick to seal the idea off as not possibly working. Go ahead and disagree with it, or pick out problems with it. But you should slow down a bit before dropping accusations that it's ill-conceived from the ground up and couldn't possibly be further balanced to work decently.

The burden of proof always lies on the one making an extraordinary claim, regardless of political position. source

I'm not really sure who was making extraordinary claims as I can't really tell what you guys were going on about for sure.

But they can warp while cloaked. Main reason I think covert cyno hotdrops should be limited in size is because they so easily evade intel that you never know if they're coming except when the system is completely free of non-blues. It seems unreasonable to me that one red in local could potentially turn into 250 reds in an instant and not at a gate or other beacon visible on the overview, and there's no way for you to calculate the probability with available intel.

I would have limited the size to 10 ships per covert cyno, which is plenty enough for a good gank and to hold ground while waiting out a brief timer of, say, 1 minute until they can light a regular cyno or more covert cynos. Also, easy way around the limitation is to bring multiple covert ops ships through the gates in the first place. Depending on how that pans out, might have to limit to 5 per covert cyno after all, but I'm optimistic about it.

Docking is not like cloaking, because a cloaked pilot (in a covert ops ship) can roam about and watch what's going on, gather intel, relay intel, set up for an ambush, and make plans. A docked player can only do what doesn't include gathering intel or moving into a strategic position.

Wrong. A planned attack can heavily involve covert ops ships, but it is not nearly as possible to respond to a covert ops attack with covert ops ships because the defenders did not have enough warning time to suspect a covert ops attack.

My problem with the current cloaking mechanic is not that it hurts some people more than others (it doesn't) but that it stagnates PVP in general and leads to fewer kills due to increased danger, due to decreased intel.

yes this tactic i have seen in person in a system.

while i do like it for its simplicity it does hamper game play and pvp fights, they know what we deploy to fights and can counter it long before we are encountered.

it also hampers pve and mining ops, we cant mine well with good efficent ships or rat in good efficent ratting ships.

generally cloaking should use alot more cap or a fuel source.

Again, I have to question your null sec knowledge.

That is a cop-out
In response I direct you to this:
I am trying to get Orcas and Rorquals into mining belts and have more fights.

So Seraph: Does that sounds like your typical carebear?

The strangest thing of all is that there is so much anti-AFK hate for miners ....
.... and yet ...
... let us defend AFK cloaking like they want to take our air away!

So, the Orca / Rorqual stays out of rat range, keep aligning between two POSes or safe points, has a cloak and runs away as soon as a red is within 3-5 systems?
That is if people do not:
- Stop using boosters
- Stop mining all together.

You put 2 seconds thought into that post like all the others, right?

Is some of Null Sec too safe?